Wayne Hussey has had a respectable run with The Mission but his two years in The Sisters of Mercy (1983-1985) were so defining that our talk (via zoom) revolved around them. And it showed from the start that he had loads to say…
It’s my big pleasure to have you here, Wayne, from Thessaloniki, Greece, Mic.gr.
Okay, how are you?
I’m great. I would like to ask you first about your connection with Greece, because I think it’s quite strong, isn’t it?
Yeah, I think the first time I went to Greece was in maybe 1990 with The Mission. We played two shows, I think, in Athens. And then I came back to Athens to produce a band called Flowers of Romance. 1996. Mike Pougounas. Yeah, and I was there for a few weeks, enjoyed that. That was a good experience. And we’ve been back to Greece a few times since. I think I’ve even been there, played solo, actually. I mean, it’s been a while since the band played there. But I think I was there in 2019 last time.
Okay, what is your strongest recollection, let’s say, from your stay here?
Well, maybe that climb up the hill to see the Parthenon, you know, that’s quite a walk, I’m not used to that much exercise. So it was a bit of a surprise. First time I went up there, I was like, blimey, this is it, can I get a helicopter to take me up there?(laughs) I’ve had some nice times in Greece, you know, met some very nice people, some cool people. And I think we played in Thessalonica once as well, actually. And I remember that the rest of the band and the crew all decided to travel by road from Athens to Thessalonica. Me and one of the guys decided to fly. And I remember coming in Thessalonica, we came around the mountain, and then it was like the plane was crashing. It went down so fast. And me and my friend sat there going, Oh, we’re gonna die. We just looked around everybody else, everybody else was casual. And then we saw how steep that landing in Thessalonica was like, crazy steep.
No way would you die? We wanted you there alive and kicking.
So yeah, but it was an experience, right? So we got to go somewhere, somehow, sometime.
Okay, that’s nice. Are you ready for a quiz?
Yeah, yeah. Fire away.
I will tell you three artists of Greek origin. And you will tell me the one that you collaborated with in a band.
All right.
Adonis Michailidis.
Sorry?
Adonis Michailidis, that’s Mick Cairn to you, the bass player of Japan.
Οkay, no, no.
What about Haralambos Haralambou?
Hamby Haralambos?
Yes, that’s it. That’s him.
Yeah, I worked with Hamby back in the Liverpool days. Yeah, many years ago. Did you know Hamby?
Not personally, but from what I understand, he deserved much more in his career as a Liverpool legend, but he never got it. Is that right?
Yeah, I always thought he should have been a pop star, but for one reason or another, it didn’t happen for him. You know, it doesn’t always happen to the most worthy.
Yeah. And the other one, does the name Georgios Kyriakos Panagiotou mean anything to you?
Is he a footballer?
No, it’s George Michael.
Oh, George Michael. Okay. I never met George, but I think ‘Listen Without Prejudice’ is a great album. I wasn’t a fan of Wham! particularly, but…
Neither was I. I was always a Duran Duran fan, to be honest with you, but anyway.
Duran Duran. Well, you know, we all got crosses to bear, mate. (laughs)
And if I remember well from your book, your great friend Andrew used to listen to ‘Careless Whisper’ all the time in the tour van or something
Yeah, me and Andrew used to like that. I mean, that was one of the very, very few things we agreed upon, that Careless Whisper was a great pop song.
That’s a great introduction. That’s one of the very few things that you agreed with, right? Because, you know, we will have to talk about that in depth, let’s say.
Oh dear. (laughs) This would be like a psychotherapy session for me then.
Do you know that trauma is a Greek word, but therapy is a Greek word too. So when you have a trauma, you need the therapy.
Okay. All right.
But before we get to that, I would like to ask you, when the name Pete Burns comes to your mind, what’s the first thing that you really recollect, let’s say, about this colossal figure?
Yeah, he was colossal. I mean, he was a big man as well. He was tall and he was very well built. You know, you didn’t want to pick a fight with Pete, that’s for sure.
He was very intimidating from what you described, is that right?
Ηe could really look after himself. Yeah. I mean, he was very witty, but he could be very cruel with his wit too. But, you know, he was gay. So a lot of gay people are very witty , you know, and they’re very funny. And he was very funny. But the thing with Pete is if he was on your side, then, you know, he would fight to the death for you. And he was also quite fickle with his allegiances though. So, you know, you could be in one day and out the next with Pete.
How did you feel about that tremendous success of You Spin Me Round? It was the time that you had left the band already. I mean, did it get on your nerves somehow or you didn’t?
No, not at all. It was brilliant. I was really happy and pleased for them. I felt proud to have been part of the band. And also, you’ve got to remember, they put one of the songs that I co-wrote on the B-side. I mean, you’re talking going back to vinyl days. So, the seven inch, the 12 inch and they put Misty Circles on the B-side and it was a big hit all over the world. So I actually made quite a lot of money out of it. So I’m not going to complain about that at all. It’s one of those things. I always thought that Dead or Alive were destined to be pop stars. It was just that by the time they became pop stars, there was no place in the band for me anymore. I play guitar, you know, and that’s what I wanted to do, play guitar. And by the time I left, it was, you know, all I was doing was on the records.
But the ironic thing is that you showed them a way of how to be more electronic and stuff like that.
Yeah, I did. You know, we got kind of bored with rock music, listening to rock music, going to rock clubs. So we used to go to gay clubs a lot and listen and hear the dance music there that were playing in the gay clubs in the early 80s. And obviously, it kind of has an influence on you, what you listen to and what you dance to on a Saturday night. But we didn’t really know how to get that sound, you know, because, as I said, I was a guitarist. And we had a drummer and a bass player, like a normal band. But I was living with a friend who was into electronic music. And he had a drum machine and he had a Roland synthesizer at home in the flat we shared. And one day I was messing around with it. And I found out if you pull up the guitar into the back of the synthesizer and sequenced it up to the drum machine, because MIDI was in its infancy then and press play on the drum machine and the synth and play guitar through the synthesizer, the guitar would go. And that was like, yeah, that was a revelation. That was how we started writing a lot of our new songs after that, with that guitar effect. But ultimately, once we got a little bit of money, we bought an Oberheim system, which was a drum machine, a sequencer and a synthesizer. And I ended up transposing all of my guitar parts onto a keyboard and then put in the sequencer.
So you deserve the money you got even from that.
Yeah, it was an exciting time, really. I mean, I enjoyed being in Dead or Alive. We didn’t play enough shows for my liking. We only played like six shows or something in the two years I was in the band. But I enjoyed being in that band. But it came to a point where I was frustrated.
Yeah, yeah. His previous incarnation was also quite interesting, Nightmares on Wax.. You were not a part of that, were you?
No, I wasn’t. No. But I was playing with Hamby then.
Hamby and the Dance at that time, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I will have to ask you about a couple of more very typical Liverpool figures at that time. And one would be obviously Holly Johnson. I think he proposed that you participated in his band.
Well, I knew Holly from around town from going to the same clubs and everything. And then one night he was in the club and he said, yeah, I’m getting a new band together. Do you want to come and play? I don’t know, mate. I can’t remember who I was playing with at the time, but I think I was probably in Dead or Alive at the time. And it was like, what, you got a name or anything? Yeah. Frankie goes to Hollywood. That’s a shit name. I’m not going to play Frankie goes to Hollywood. (laughs)
You were one of the first guys who could listen to that name for the first time…
Yeah. I mean, I think it actually came around like this… There’s a guy called Ambrose Reynolds who ended up playing in a band with me. The first kind of proper band I was in in Liverpool, the Deadbirds, who evolved into the Walkie Talkies, Ambrose played bass, but he ended up playing with Pink Industry and Pink Military. And, you know, he’s a well-known figure around Liverpool, Ambrose. He’s a lovely man. And we used to rehearse and we actually used to rehearse in the basement of Hamby’s house. And Ambrose used to put newspaper clippings up on the wall where we rehearsed. And one of them was the newspaper clipping by Frank Sinatra. Frankie goes to Hollywood, was the headline. And that’s where the name came from.
Did you ever regret that Wayne from Bristol went to Liverpool?
No, no, I don’t regret it at all. I mean, who knows how my life’s journey would have gone if I hadn’t done it. Maybe I would have gone to London. I don’t know. Maybe I’d gone somewhere else. But no, my journey has been good. It’s been good to me. I’ve had a good time. I mean, obviously, ups and downs like everybody else in life. But, it’s been touch wood, good and remains good. So you can’t regret those kind of decisions at all.
You had an advantage. You also became a supporter of the greatest European football team of the 80s.
I was already. I mean, that was part of the reason I went to Liverpool. I was a Liverpool supporter from when I was a little kid, you know.
I remember that team quite well. I mean, of the team of the 80s. Danglish was your favourite player or maybe not?
Liverpool have had some great players. I mean, Ian Rush was great. John Barnes was great. Robbie Fowler was a favourite of mine. He’s probably my favourite of all time, actually. I mean, obviously, Stephen Gerrard is a legend, he really carried that club for 10, 15 years.
The guy I can never forget is Bruce Grobelaar, by the way. I have to tell you that.
Yeah, those wobbly legs. (laughs) Yeah. You know, Bruce was a character…
You had a Greek player the last three or four years, you know, Tsimikas, if you remember him?
Yeah, the Greek Scouser, that’s what we call him…
By the way, I would like to ask you about that. Is it true that Liverpool is somehow the most Celtic city in the whole of Britain? I mean, this Irish colour is so evident, so vivid in the whole city because you lived there, obviously.
Ι mean, it has this Irishness, all this Irish colour because, you know, so many people came up with the troubles in Ireland over the years. There’s a lot of people that emigrated from Ireland and the first port of call from Ireland is Liverpool. You know, Liverpool was a major, major port in the world, actually, for many years.
Does it make it different from the rest of Britain in your opinion? I mean, the whole vibe?
I think Liverpool has its own identity. I mean, every city has its own identity, actually. But Liverpool, I think the people of Liverpool think of themselves as really not part of England, almost.
Yeah, that’s what I was talking about before.
Yeah, and I think certainly when Thatcher was in power, there did seem to be a concentrated effort by the government to really bring Liverpool down. Yeah, yeah, I think so. And obviously the media as well, newspapers like The Sun and the News of the World have really an anti-Liverpool bias, you know. So, yeah, so there is that mentality of amongst Liverpoolians where, you know, it’s us against them.
Yeah, the Scouser thing. And I would like to ask you about your past before we go to our major, first and last and always topic, but we leave it for a little later, about your participation in the Pauline Murray project. Penetration, right?
Yeah, I didn’t play with Penetration. I played with Pauline after she left Penetration. She made a solo album with the Invisible Girls, who were a collective put together by the producer Martin Hannett.
That’s what I wanted to ask you about. He had such a reputation of being, OK, a brilliant producer, for sure, but also a difficult guy. Did you experience that firsthand?
Yeah, I mean he was definitely a character. It was an education working with him. Up to that point, I hadn’t worked with many producers. I’ve worked with Colin Thurston, who ended up producing one of your favourites, Duran Duran. But Martin was definitely a maverick. I mean, instead of a snare drum, for instance, he had John Mayer, who was the drummer in the Buzzcocks at the time, pressing an aerosol. That was the snare sound on the record. And I remember one time it was just me and Martin in the studio and I was actually in the studio and Martin was in the control room and I was playing the guitar doing a take and it was all very dark in the studio and in the control room. So I couldn’t really see anybody in the control room. And I would play through the song and it would get to the end. This is the old days, right? So get to the end of the song and then the tape would go and rewind. You’d hear that as it rewound. And then when it got back to the beginning, it would start again. And then I was like, play again. And this went on for three or four or five times. I was thinking, OK, well, what am I doing wrong? Can you tell me what I’m doing wrong? And it was a start again. OK, all right. He’s not going to talk to me. I’ll play. So, you know, I played a couple more times, played the song. And in the end, I thought, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong here. I’m playing the song. You know, I’m playing the part. I’m playing it well. I mean, tell me what’s going on. So I put the guitar down, walked into the control room. And as I said, it was dark. And then the tape was playing. It finished and it went rewind to the beginning. And before it started again, I heard. Oh, my God. And I looked down on the floor. Martin was asleep on the floor underneath the mixing desk. So I was like, thanks. That’s really good for my confidence. (laughs)
If it’s any consolation to you, I think it happened to other artists who worked with him.
Yeah, I know. I know it did. I’m sure it did. I mean, I know that Martin really didn’t like having the musicians around when he was mixing. That’s right. Right. You fuck off. I’m going to mix. (laughs)
And so let me specify at that point that Duran Duran were my favorites when I was 13. But when I started to listen to more serious stuff, for sure Joy Division became my favorite and have always been. So it’s an obvious question. You said that Joy Division supported one of your bands. Which one was that?
It’s called the Deadbirds. The band I was talking about before with Ambrose. We signed to Sire Records. Seymour Stein saw us supporting the Pretenders, really liked us, signed us. And we released one single on Sire Records in 1979. That was my first ever release, actually. And then we split up. And then yeah, Joy Division supported us in Liverpool, a place called Eric’s. And then we went over and supported Joy Division at a place called The Factory in Manchester.
Sorry, was it the day that they played twice ?
Yeah, it was. It was a Saturday. So there was a matinee show for the under 18s and then an evening, you know, a later show.
Did you have any recollections of that?
I mean, the dress room was the size of, you know, a little cupboard. So both bands were stuck in there. I mean, obviously, we talked to each other, but, you know, they were from Manchester. We’re from Liverpool. There was a rivalry, you know, so it wasn’t fighting or anything, but it was a little bit, you know, tense. Not tense, a bit of banter. It was, you know, a bit of taking the piss out of each other, really. I guess. And it’s a strange thing. I don’t like and I don’t know whether this memory is coloured by what eventually happened to Ian, but I remember the other three laughing and joking and messing around a lot. And Ian would just sit in the corner. He would join the conversation, but he was sat in the corner and was fairly quiet compared to the other three. You know, just sat there with a beer, drinking a beer, very quiet. But as I said, I don’t know whether that’s just a memory that’s been fostered by what eventually happened with him, you know. A sequence of events, yeah.
From what I understand from your book, I mean, your first book. And this first book is highly recommended..
Thank you.
The thing is that you have a talent with words. You know how to tell a story, that’s for sure. And from what one gathers from your situation around 1983, you have this kind of burning ambition and you couldn’t fulfil it because there wasn’t a trajectory bound to fulfil this ambition. So you get a call. There was some kind of introduction from a third party, if I recall well, and they proposed that you join the ranks of the Sisters. Now, the first thing that has somehow made an impression on me is, if I remember well, you said that you were not especially enthusiastic about their repertoire so far, I mean, till 1983.
It’s not that. I didn’t really know them. You know, I lived in Liverpool, I knew Liverpool bands and Liverpool bands were having top 40 hits. And there were people like Teardrop Explodes, Echo and the Bunnymen, the Lotus Eaters, I mean, lots of bands from Liverpool were starting to have hits. But the Sisters of Mercy were a cult band, an underground band, they were in the alternative charts. But I didn’t really pay much attention. You know, I’d hear them in nightclubs, but not really know who it was. It sounded like a lot of other things to me, in all honesty.
So how did you feel when you got this call inviting you?
Well, at that point, I’d left Dead or Alive and I was between bands and it was OK, well, what have I got to lose? I had a girlfriend at the time who was really into the Sisters and she said, you’ve got to go, you’ve got to go. I was like, well, all right, then I’ll go. So, you know, Andrew Corby and I went over, met with Andrew and Craig and Gary Marx. And yeah, they offered me the job, he gave me a pile of Sisters records to take home and listen to. And he said he’d call me in a day or two with their decision after I listened and made my decision. Anyway, I took the records home and then started listening to them. And I thought, yeah, this is guitar music. I can, you know, get into this. And it was the B side, actually, of the single that hadn’t been released yet, but it was going to be released, I don’t know, in a few weeks time. Temple of Love hadn’t been released when I joined, but the B side was Give Me Shelter. And I knew that song, obviously, the Rolling Stones. And I love the Sisters version of it. And that was the thing that swung it for me, really. I thought, yeah, I can get into this. I can see myself playing this. In retrospect, I guess.
All right. Do you have any preferences from the older stuff before you joined? I mean, songs like Heartland or Anaconda or Burn … obviously, Alice..
Well, Alice and Floor Show I really liked. I liked some of the Reptile House, although we didn’t play that very often. We played Heartland for a while, but it wasn’t one of my favorites. Adrenochrome was one I quite liked. Body Electric was one I quite liked. Well, when I say I quite liked, I quite like playing them. Yeah.
I would like to ask you about your first impressions when you met the other three.
All right. OK, when I first arrived at the place where Andrew lived in Leeds, the curtains, it was daytime and the curtains were drawn and I knocked on the door and then it was that there was a young lady that answered the door who I found out later that her name was Claire and she was Andrew’s partner at the time. And then I was shown into a living room and then there was…
So sorry to interrupt you in that. At the time of First and Last and Always, he was separating from her and he was feeling so sad and all that. That was the woman that Andrew was separating from.
Yeah, I guess. I mean, you know, the funny thing is when you’re in a band.. I didn’t really take any notice what the lyrics were. And most members of Joy Division have said that themselves when they did not take any notice what Ian was singing, you know, they just thought they’re nice words. That’s what I thought at the time. You know, I mean, obviously, I’ve since come to appreciate the art of writing lyrics because I write the lyrics for the Mission. But at the time, I didn’t really.. I was more concerned about what guitar line should I play. And then there were certain lyrics that would jump out at me and say, oh, that’s good. During the LP period, they were having problems and they were splitting up. But how can I say this? We lived in a world where it was very, very common for us all to go off and sleep with various people all the time, you know, have sex with various people all the time, all over the world, even if you go out on a Friday, Saturday night in Leeds, you know, you go home with someone Friday night, someone different on a Saturday night. We all did it. It was just the way we were when we were young. I think it still probably is, the way young people are today. Concerning Gary, he had a steady girlfriend and he would never like that in my experience. Andrew on tour, on the other hand, you know, he liked his dalliances. Oh, yeah.
Did you feel inside you that when you joined the band, that your ambition could be fulfilled through this?
I am not sure if I just sat down to analyse all that ..basically I wanted to do stuff, play with the band, travel the world, have as much sex and as many drugs as possible you know.. it was good that we played a lot and we were busy all the time, which was the exact opposite from my situation in Dead or Alive. .I was young at that time with no real obligations and that was what I really wanted to do. .it’s true that there were times that I felt truly proud to be in the band, sometimes I thought of it as the best in the world and some of our live gigs were absolutely great.. though there was visible tension in the band.. there has been tension in all the bands I have been in but not so much as in the Sisters..
By the way, they were decent with Ben Gunn, did you ever meet him..?
Yes, a few times but he mainly wanted to be an academic, so he quitted after a while, he didn’t like the rock kind of life, you know some people are not built for it..
Yes but he also implied that he had had enough of Eldrich, so he was probably the first one to admit it…
I don’t think he was the first one…(laughs sarcastically)
So I think you said that the band wanted you to join so that you could make it more colourful let’s say.. and it seems you gave everything you got from day one.
Well.. you need to do that in every aspect of life, if you really want to do something you do need to give all you got…
Right… and with you the Sisters became a different beast. but 40 years later, you name seems to be absent when talking about this very band.
And why shouldn’t it..? it’s been 40 years and I was there actually for only two years..
Well..What’s the greatest Sisters work by far..?
Depends who you ask.. but if you ask me, it’s First and last…
And that’s an opinion shared by 99 per cent of people in this planet.. and who wrote First and last.. musically speaking..?
Well..me and Gary basically.
So, I still believe in Wayne as a very essential part of the true Sisters, but the question is how much Wayne still believes in it.
Ah, you know what, it’s a job I had 40 years ago. You know, I don’t listen to the Sisters. I haven’t been to see the Sisters for a long time. I have no contact with Andrew.
Which Sisters? Do you think the Sisters exist? Are you sure about that?
I don’t know. They go out and play shows, it’s the Sisters of Mercy and they do well by all accounts.
By name only.
So what? So what? I mean, there was a time when I was the only original member in the Mission. You can’t deny me the right to go out and play my music.
I can answer you in that way. If Robert Smith is the only original member of the Cure, the Cure can go on. If Wayne Hussey is the only original member of the Mission, the Mission can go on. If Eldridge is the only original member of the Sisters, the Sisters cannot go on.
Don’t forget Dr Avalanche. (laughs sarcastically)
We need to get back to one of my previous questions . Who wrote First and Last and Always, musically speaking?
Mostly me and Gary Marx.
So 10 songs, 6 out of 10, your contribution. 4 out of 10, Gary’s contribution.
Yeah, OK.
Does this show something about the band?
You’re right. I mean, the thing is, when I joined the band, yes, you’re right, we’re going back to that question. I brought colour to the band. I brought a more pop sensibility to the band, you know, a more commercial sensibility. I mean, I came from Liverpool, which has a history of pop music, and at that time, as I said before, there were bands like Orchestral Maneuvers, Echo and the Bunnymen, Teardrop Explodes, Lotus Eaters, all having pop hits. So I had that in me and I had that kind of sensibility. And that’s what the Sisters needed at that point, to take them from where they were to the next step.
Absolutely. So it doesn’t matter that you were there only for two years. It doesn’t matter that Greg was there from the start till 1985 or Gary till 1984 or 2005 or whatever. The impact is what matters. I think this is absolutely clear. And I have to tell you, you have heard that before. So many people think of the Sisters dead after 1985. And personally speaking, I consider Floodland and all the rest solo projects by Andrew.
So what? It’s fine. I mean, it’s Floodland. Floodland has like three or four really great songs. The rest of it to me sounds like demos.
What was your contribution, by the way? Did you write something specific concerning Floodland?
I remember going to Hamburg and spending two miserable weeks with Andrew in an apartment on the outskirts of Hamburg while he watched German TV. I would be messing around with his demos, which consisted of a drum machine and a bass guitar going for 10 minutes. And then I would come up with guitar parts. And by which time I’d all already written, I don’t know, 10, 12 new tunes. They ended up being Mission songs, actually. I mean, Dance on Glass and Crystal Ocean and… Yeah, all that stuff. Serpent’s Kiss, Garden of Delight, Stay With Me, Sacrilege. You know, most of Wasteland, most of that stuff was written initially for the second Sisters album. So it ended up working out all right for me.. I mean, it was a miserable two weeks. I thought it would be an opportunity for me and Andrew to actually bond. But it didn’t work out that way. The thing is, I only know Andrew from a limited time period, 1983 to 85. I don’t know what he’s like now. He was by far the most difficult person I’ve ever had to work with up to that point. And every day, every conversation was like a challenge with him.
Intellectual challenge?
Yeah, he is very clever. And he’s very educated and very intellectual. And he is a great lyricist, but he’s just very slow, you know? Which is fine. I mean, Leonard Cohen took years to write his songs. On the other hand, by much, I prefer Bob Dylan who writes song in 10 minutes. I’m more of the Bob Dylan school than the Leonard Cohen school, personally.
Okay, but the thing is, the way we talk about stuff now concerning that era, I find it totally unfair that the Sisters reference for the last, how many, 30 years or something is limited just to Andrew. And your name and Craig’s name and Gary’s name are omitted. That’s gross, in my opinion.
I couldn’t care less.
I’m not sure. Wayne, I’m not sure about that. Because deep inside, let me say that I think that you’re a very sentimental person. And maybe it kind of hurts.
Listen, there’s been other things that have gone in my life that hurt me a whole lot more than Andrew Eldridge could ever hurt me. So put things in perspective, right? It’s 40 years ago, I couldn’t care less, I made the right decision to leave the band when I did and form the Mission. I’ve been a lot happier in the Mission than I was ever in the Sisters of Mercy. The fact that we’re not as popular or as well known as the Sisters doesn’t bother me. We’re still here 40 years later, playing shows, making records, I’m still able to make new music and that’s all I care about. I don’t care about what I did 40 years ago. I’m proud of what I did 40 years ago. But I don’t sit here and reminisce and think all the good old days. I don’t because they weren’t. You know, they were just that, one passage of time in my life.
I know what you mean on the one hand.. On the other hand, you said yourself that you felt that that period, that time, that era was a very significant one for you. And you believed in the potential of the band so much at that time. So all the things that happened after that, the split and all this, it was unfair. I mean, it shouldn’t happen that way. That’s all I’m saying. I just want to convey to you something which is…
It’s easy to say that, but, you know, it’s at the same time there were people there who said it’s not fair that Wayne Hussey got on Top of the Pops and on the cover of magazines. There are people that I went to school with that were as talented as me, if not more so, but they never ended up being able to be professional musicians. You know, part of that is I was very lucky, but it was also that I made sacrifices to do what I’ve done. And, as I said, that there have been personal things going on in my life that have troubled me a whole lot more than Andrew Eldridge could ever trouble me.
I wouldn’t like to personify it just with Andrew or, you know, somehow just project a kind of competition or vendetta. No, not like that. For me, it doesn’t have to do with you only. It also has to do with Craig and Gary. So what I’m saying, you know what I mean, right?
Well, I know Craig very well, I’ve known the guy now for more than 40 years. Same with Gary Marx. I’m in touch with Gary Marx. I’ve just sung on a couple of songs for Gary. You know, he’s making a glam rock album and I sang on two songs for him.
Oh, that’s good.
So, you know, we’re OK. The three of us are fine with who we are and we’re fine with each other. It’s Andrew that’s out on his own. And that’s all right. That’s Andrew’s choice
Let me be the devil’s advocate for once more. Let’s say that there was a possibility, just one chance that all four of you could reunite. All four of you. I mean, you know, the three of you plus Andrew. Would you take that chance or would you deny it?
If we were paid a lot of money.
Are you sure that’s the biggest motivation? Are you sure about that?
Well, listen, the thing is, I’ve not seen the Sisters for a long time. And the last time I saw them, it was awful. It sounded dreadful. And Andrew’s voice was terrible and it didn’t used to be terrible. It used to be really good when I was in the band. And I would want it to be good if I was to do it. There’s no guarantee of that. From the stories that I hear of what the Sisters are like now, it’s gotten even worse. Andrew’s voice is completely gone. So it would have to be the only reason that we would do it. And we’ve talked about this, me and Craig would play for the money. And we’re sure that if we did it, it would make a lot of money. But also knowing Andrew, Andrew wouldn’t want to give us our fair share. But why? Why would he? Because he goes out and plays big shows anyway, as the Sisters of Mercy. So why would he want to go out and share that with us? He wouldn’t. It’s never going to happen.
You know concerning The Mission, I respect your history with The Mission totally. My favorites are the first two. I mean, the compilation, The First Chapter and God’s Own Medicine. And the next one is an album that got made because Billy Corgan invited you to play First and Last and Always again after 30 years. And you were finally inspired, Wayne, to use the 12-string guitar again and recreate in your own words the typical Wayne Hussey signature sound. And that album, Another Fall From Grace, I think is the next greatest after the first, in my humble opinion, always.
All right. No, it’s fine. I wouldn’t disagree with you.
I mean, it means something to you. It’s not just anything.
That’s what I think. It does mean something to me, of course it does, you know, but just the same way as playing with Pauline Murray and playing on her album means something to me, maybe not quite the same in magnitude but it was definitely a stepping stone. I got to work with Martin Hannet and Pauline’s album is a lovely album. Same with Dead or Alive, these are stepping stones. The Sisters, I think the way it all fell apart left a very sour taste. You know, I don’t like having relationships that are, how can I say, that are fraught in my life. Life is too short.
Yeah, I know.
So, you cut those relationships out of your life. It’s like, right, fine. I don’t need it. Move on.
I have heard so many interpretations about this. So this is the final question about that thing. And I would like to thank you. So I have heard so many interpretations about the basic reason for the split, just with one phrase or something. What was the basic reason for the split?
Andrew Eldritch
Okay, that says it all, I guess.
I mean, the guy still has that reputation. He’s just been on tour in America. And after shows, you know, there are fans that wait around outside the venue for your autograph and have a selfie. And I always make an effort to sign things and to be civil. People wait a long time for the moment. And they tell me stories about how they wait for Andrew, and he just tells them to fuck off. And I just think, okay, he’s not changed.
Yeah, I guess so. By the way, I have to say that I’m very glad to see you like this. You look healthy, in body and mind and everything. I like your hairstyle like this, much better than the 1987 image, you know, and all the paraphernalia stuff. And, you know, I have to tell you a story, maybe it will be funny to you. I used to buy stuff like Smash Hits and Bravo. Do you remember that German magazine?
Yeah, I remember Bravo.
And of course, I saw the posters with that guy with the hair and the polished nails and the hat and all that. And I said, this is Wayne from the Sisters. Is that him for sure? I couldn’t believe it… (laughs)
Come on a minute. You like fucking Duran Duran. It was the 80s. Come on. (laughs) You know, boys in makeup. But I specified. Everybody was doing it. I have photographs with Eldrich with nail polish on when I was in the Sisters.
All right. Okay, I have to say that from the four of you, I mean, from the Sisters time, Gary seemed the most serious to me, if I have to say that.
Gary? He formed Ghost Dance after the Sisters and then bailed out. And he went a totally different route. You know, he became a teacher of music. But I think he was the least rock and roll of us. So he is still with the same woman all these years. So I think he’s not necessarily the most serious.. Andrew was, in all honesty. Andrew was the most serious. But Gary didn’t buy into the whole rock and roll, sex and drugs thing, you know, he was into it for the music. When the music became secondary, it was no longer right for him. Gary is a lovely man. I always have very fond memories of Gary.
And now it’s time to talk about your partner in the Evil Twins. You know, first of all, his name, this Craig Adams is a Scottish surname or name or whatever or not really?
I don’t know. I mean, it’s quite a common name. Adams.
After so many years, what are your feelings towards that guy?
Well, we know each other so, so, so, so well. We have daughters by the same mother. So, you know, we are almost family. Obviously, my parents and his parents, although his dad died last year, sadly, would get together and have social gatherings, while we were away with the kids and stuff with the grandchildren. So it was a very strange situation. I mean, I love him, love him to bits and he’s calmed down a lot. And in many respects, he is his own worst enemy, because he tends to overdo things. And when those moments come, I think, okay, I’m leaving. I’m going to bed. Let everybody else do it all with Craig. You know, obviously, we’re close, we know each other so well. And we’re, I wouldn’t say we’re friends, best friends in the sense that we confide in each other. But we are best friends in the sense that I know, and he knows we’re here for each other if we ever really need each other.
He seems to be a very private person. You can find nothing in YouTube.
He’s a lot more private than I am. I mean, I’ve got a big mouth.. (laughs)
You are eloquent. And this is something that nobody can doubt about you. And I have to say something about your book. Lest I forget. I was very moved by your words about your stepfather. It was the time after you found out about your biological father, if I remember well, and you said something like, my stepfather will always be my true daddy. I was really moved by that. I mean, lots of emotion.
I never met my real father. And he went back to America. And, you know, he never even knew I existed, which is fine. But I’ll tell you a side story to that which has come around since my second book, after I finished my second book. About two years ago, one of his daughters in LA got in touch with me. And she had been given a DNA kit for a present, where you send your DNA in, and they kind of see if there’s any other people with the same DNA in the world. Anyway, she was on this database. And she was contacted by this woman in England, who lives in Bournemouth, who said, I think I might be related to you. And then she got talking to this woman. And it transpires that this woman, who is two years older than me, is actually my sister, my paternal sister. She had the same father. And he didn’t raise her, she was given up for adoption.. I was nearly given up for adoption. But my mom changed her mind at the last minute. Yeah. But this American guy service man was stationed in Britain and was obviously a bit of a lad. And yeah, so I’ve now got a sister, and I’ve been to see her a few times, we talk every few weeks and it’s amazing. All my other siblings are younger than me. So I’ve now got an older sister, which is great.
But this is your style, as far as I’m concerned, I mean, okay, I haven’t met you in person, obviously, but you seem a guy who is very easy to get along with, and, you know, have a beer or something.
And the contrast, I don’t drink it.
Yeah, I know. But just for the sake of discussion. And the thing is that that that’s in a very big contrast to, okay, we get back to Andrew, you know, inevitably. But from this kind of juxtaposition of attitudes and styles and all that, and the tension that there was in the whole relationship in the band, the music became greater, I believe, I think it was a motivation to transform this kind of tension in the music. That’s the thing that I really like and appreciate. So the thing I would like to ask you, because it’s my favorite song, and it’s your composition, maybe you guess already, it’s about Marian. And I remember your words very clearly that, okay, it was very difficult to put up with Andrew. But if the result is a song like Marian, you can somehow tolerate it.
Yeah, I mean, the song like that, I tell you, that song was magical. It came up.
Absolutely.
Ιt was alchemy at work. I mean, basically, I was in the studio, there was no one else there, apart from the engineer, a young engineer. And I’ve done everything that I had to do. I’ve been working on what became Black Planet. And I had some time and it was like, okay, I’ve got this new idea. Let’s put it down. I did the whole of Marian in the space of a few hours, played the bass, played all the guitars. And the guitar, the guitars on that song, I just when I hear that now, I just think, well, how did I do that? It’s just, it’s lovely. It’s beautiful. And then when at the end of the day, when Andrew came into the studio, you’ve obviously read the book, you know, I played it to him. And it was like, don’t like that much. Sounds like Siouxsie in the Banshees or something like that, you know. And it was like, fuck off. And I’m going. And then when I came back in the morning, there was a finished vocal on it. It was Marian. He’d done the vocal. And this is the weird thing, because Andrew can spend months and months and months on a lyric. But he wrote that song and sang it in the same night. So there is a magical, an alchemical, magical thing about that song that transcends all the other shit that was going on.
Do you still play Marian with The Mission these days?
I sometimes drop a little bit of it into Wasteland. We did play it for a little while. I remember, 2017, around that time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the thing, my argument was that, well, it’s one of my songs, you know.
But it is. And Possession is one of your songs. And Walk Away is one of your songs. And No Time To Cry is one of your songs. So you have every right to play it.
A Rock and a Hard Place.
This is not my favorite. I’m sorry for that. My most favorite of you is Marian, for sure. And after that, it’s Walk Away. Is it true that Walk Away was a warning for Gary to step aside or something?
I have no idea. As I said to you earlier, I didn’t really pay any attention to the lyrics. You know, I wasn’t writing the lyrics. So I didn’t really pay attention. And I was like Peter Hook has said himself, they didn’t listen to Ian Curtis’s lyrics.
That’s true. Nowadays, like I said, it’s very nice to see you really healthy and in a very good condition. Congratulations for that. You are in a country that I really like. How does it feel like, you know, living in Brazil? What’s the vibe for you? How are you enjoying it?
Yeah, I do. I love it. I mean, it’s my home. I’ve lived here now for more than 20 years. You know, I’ve lived here longer than I’ve lived anywhere else ever. So, you know, it’s my home. We have a nice place in the countryside. We have an apartment in the city, Sao Paolo.
And you’re a great family man, by the way.
Well, my daughters might argue against that, (laughs) but yeah, I like being at home, but I also like going on tour and then coming home, coming home to this is beautiful. I have a studio. We have pets. We have a little bit of land and life is good.
I think that I just asked everything that was in my mind about what I wanted to learn from you. I would like to thank you again so much. I hope you forgive me but deep in my mind, this vision of you four reuniting exists and will never cease to exist. I hope one way or another I’m lucky to see it happen one day.
You know what, as I said to you before, Craig and I have talked about it. We get asked about it obviously every now and then. And we know that if we did it, there would be a lot of money involved. We know that.
Please forget about the money…
No, no, that would be the only reason to do it, honestly. I mean, because Andrew is a shadow of who he once was. His voice is gone.
Actually, your vocals in the Sisters were extraordinary.
Yeah, but Andrew is the lead vocalist, not me. Andrew would need to sing those songs. I don’t mind doing, you know, no, no, no, no. First and last and always, you know, I don’t mind. (laughs)So you know I don’t see it happening because Andrew is a shadow of his former self.
Common now, give some hope, don’t finish it like that…
I am not saying that it can never happen, I am saying that I don’t see it happening basically because it will be Andrew’s decision, not ours.. you have to talk to him and persuade him.
Should I also tell him first all we talked about before? (laughs)
I don’t care (laughs)
Well, thanks so much and we hope to see you back in Greece real soon..
Well, me too but I am not really sure about that as the last time we were there, Craig threatened the promoter with a baseball bat..
I thought you said he has calmed down the last few years…
Well yes ..he doesn’t carry the baseball bat with him anymore..
